BILLY MORAN & ZACKARY DARLING
When The Devil Drives
Billy: ‘When the Devil Drives.’ That’s the “Shoot me in the face.’
To me that that song is, again, it's Rich in a nutshell, right? It's like the lyrics are spot on what you would imagine Rich saying when he's just venting to you at a dinner, you know, it's pretty much so on brand.
I felt it was such a strong opener for the album. I love the drums entering, you know, to start the album and all the kind of fun noise. We spent some time on that, Zack making that beginning, we knew it was going to be what people first heard, you know?
So we're like, let's have the bass slide…We're like, we did a lot of, like, just…we had a lot of conversations about that opening for that song. And I'm just. I'm just happy with how it came out. Really happy with how it came out.
Zack: It feel that might have been the first song that we recorded, too, which, you know, I think there's something to be said for, like, you know, start your record on a song that kind of represents the entire album and in a Gestalt, very big picture kind of way and not really..there aren't other songs that are quite as, you know, dense and heavy. Like, I don't know, as biker, as that track. So we made the counter pick on that one, I think. Yeah, that was a really fun one to record. It sounds great. Everyone did a phenomenal job, and I think it kind of set everyone's expectations for, like, this is as hard as the record goes. And now we take this and we make it, like, artsier for some songs, country-er for some songs, quieter for some songs.
Billy: I remember when that one specifically, I remember Zach Ross was in the room and he had a fuzz pedal, and we're like, let's try this. And I think he just cranked it all the way up, and we got the most gnarly guitar tone that day. It was so out of control and kind of out of character for what that what Zach would typically do there. But it was just so fun to hear. Just the chaos, you know, that was happening, you know, when we tracked that, it was a lot of fun.
Rain : When we first heard it, I was ‘This has got to be the album opener, surely?’
Everything about it sounds like a statement of intent, you know? Even acoustic, even, recorded in his lounge at home, it just had that kind of feel to it. Like, this is exactly what this album is going to be. And I figured that it was going to be a rowdy album from conversations between Rich and I previously. He was kind of talking a lot about, you know, this is going to be an album both about the frustration of being in lockdown, and also about the party we’re going to have when we get out of it. So it had all of that in it that first time we heard it. And, yeah, it just seemed to me, really, obviously, to be the track to open the album on.
That was something I was talking to Beth about a bit earlier, and I was sort of saying about how streaming has changed the way that we consume music. That, I can remember as a kid, when an album, like, say (even though U2 are kinda ass-hats these days), “The Joshua Tree”, came out, there was never a question that you would listen to it out of synch. I was 15 years old when that album dropped. And to me, it was incredible. I can remember listening to that opener, and you know, they start you on ‘Where The Street Have No Name’ with the choral organ at the very beginning and then the whole looped, ringing guitar..it was just such a great opener and a mission statement.
No one listened to an album track in isolation, you know, unless somebody made you a mixtape, if they wanted to date you. Everything we listened to, we listened to, you know, side A, side B.
Billy: Yeah.
Rain: And that’s lost. Now you download it, you might not even listen to the whole album the day you download it, you chuck it into, you know, your, running playlist or your chill playlist or whatever. Which I think is really sad, because I think albums still need to have that cohesive thread. They need to have a story, they need to have flow.So it must be really hard when you're recording something now to think, well, yeah, we're thinking about that journey, but also knowing that 90% of people who listen to this aren't going to listen to it in order.
Billy: See, I only think about the journey, though, because it's like, once you start thinking about the shuffle, then you've kind of lost your direction a little bit, you know. So I've always liked, and to your point with ‘The Joshua Tree’, with the organ; they were setting you up for the journey, you know. Like the journey you were about to embark on listening to that album.
And I think that's one of the big reasons why vinyl has made such a resurgence. One, because people like to hold stuff in their hands. But also it's that I'm gonna put on side A, I'm gonna play this and it's gonna be on, and we're gonna just have this moment, you know, and I think that's always been my joy in crafting albums and, you know, putting the sequence together and making that moment, because to me, that's the most important thing, you know?
Even if it's a small percentage of listeners that are hearing that, you know, sharing that same moment with us that we were, you know, when Zack and Rich and I were discussing orders of the tracks.And to me, that's, that, that's a win, you know, and I think it'll come back around where those folks do eventually listen to the album in top to bottom order.
Rain: When, I went out to LA, I took a CD Walkman with me so that I could listen to the CD in order.
Billy: That’s amazing.
Rain: Bought the CD from Rich, and just lay in bed after the con, just listening to the album.
Billy: It's a really good argument to encourage CD sales because this is how we've envisioned you to hear the album. You know, this is, here's your Walkman, you know, go for a walk.
Rain: It’s the best. I mean, yeah, we all listen to stuff on our phones. We live on our phones, but to me, it's not the same. I remember buying an album, going home, lying on your bed, lighting a candle, you know, all the lights out, and listening to the whole thing, and you got the gatefold in front of your face, and it's just…I think we've lost a lot of that magic.
Billy: Yeah, well, not as long as I'm able to put albums together. I think that's the most important thing, you know? And I feel like, you know, we are in a world of singles where albums are kind of going away. But I've always loved full albums. I've always loved, you know, the journey. I've always loved telling a full story with a group of stories, you know. To me, I think that's the most…some of my favourite albums are those concept albums, you know, like Pink Floyd ‘The Wall’.
Rain: And ‘Queensryche’.
Billy: ‘Operation Mindcrime’, you know, I mean, think about that, with the DVD that went along with it. I mean, I got to see the concert where they played that front to back and all the visuals, and I was just like, one of my favourite concerts I've ever been to because of that.
Because you're just so engaged, you know, you can't go away to get a beer. You’re in a performance, you know. So definitely, I think it's like, I'll always enjoy doing that, you know?
Rain: Beth was saying earlier, actually, when we were kind of catching up before, and she was talking about ‘Surprise Party for The Introvert’, and in terms of the journey that your own album takes, is you need to listen to that in order, because the mood of it follows.
Billy: It's weird. Some of those songs just don't work back to back, you know, it's like they just say they need to be around the songs that they're around.
Rain: Absolutely.
The Readout
Billy: ‘Readout’ was number two, and it was originally going to be.. Rich and I had the discussion of ‘Kerry-Anne’ or ‘Readout, Kerry-Anne’ or ‘Readout… I felt strongly that ‘Readout’ was a really good number two It's like a one-two punch. You're like, boom, here we are. To me, that one was super fun. Again, it's another one of those songs that kind of feels a little different, doesn't feel overly country, but it captured Rich again, you know, it was Rich's personality, and whether he likes it or not, he's got a little rock and roll in him, you know? So I think that was, like, one of his things. He loves R.E.M. He's a big fan of R.E.M. There's definitely some R.E.M. influence in some of that stuff, too.
Yeah, carry so with ‘Readout’, one of the things that I wanted to do is figure out a way to kind of bring a little bit more country in there with a little, like, strange. And I came up with that opening guitar, not the opening guitar part, but when everything comes in, I wanted to find something, like, what would Quentin Tarantino do in this case, you know? Like, what would make it just a little bit extra weird? I'm pretty happy with how that one came out.
Rain: I definitely hear the R.E.M. in it. It’s very IRS era R.E.M. That was my first thought with that.
Zack: I think, the new wave influence on that song is, like, pretty undeniable. I also really think that that's a song where, like, you know, the riff that, like, the whole song is based around was such an important part of, like, the demos and, like, a really important part of recording it
And I think the signature kind of sound that Zach came up with for that song is awesome. But I don't think the song really landed, like, didn't sound like it could be a single until Billy added that, like, kind of cowboy guitar part. Yeah, the kind of surfy cowboy.
Rain: Yeah, that sort of Dick Dale vibe.
Billy: Exactly. And that was fun, too, because, like, when I sent it to Rich for the first time, it was just straightforward, basic. And Rich is like, ‘What if you did this here and did this here?’ So he and I were doing that from, like, from my studio here and his house, and he's giving me directions and I think at one point I was able to stream the session to him and he was hearing me do it live. That was a fun one to just kind of crack, you know; he had a lot of insights as far as where the melody should go in that song.
Your Whiskey On My Lips
Billy: That was a very fun one when it came to, I mean, tracking everything. But when Emma came in and she was tracking her parts for that, I remember we were just like ‘Yep, okay, cool.’
You know, it was like everything was a home run. Everything was a home run. We had very, very few notes because her instincts are so strong when it comes to coming up with melody and just dynamics, you know, I think it was just really a pleasure to be able to track with her on that, for sure. We saw that one come to life in real time. We're like ‘Ooh, okay.’ You know, it was real haunting and we had just enough reverb on the vocals where you just kind of get locked into the song, you know, from the get go. And then, you know, tracking Rich's vocals, I think we went and replaced a lot of Rich's vocals to kind of fit that energy a little bit. I think the first time he did a vocal track, he did her vocal pass as well. And then we came back around and re-tracked a lot of that stuff to kind of make it feel like they're in the same room.
Zack: Like, Billy was saying, Emma's so brilliant to work with. Every take was different, and every take is good. Like, every take was so good and so different that, like, it actually took a little bit of time to kind of figure out, like, what we want this performance to be, because there were just so many quality options across the board, and yeah, it made Rich feel like he needed to replace some lines just to kind of make sure that it feels really interactive and that they're, like, in the same space performing it all live. And so we took time to make sure that, like, you know – where we couldn't record them both live, playing off each other in the same way - we had to kind of, like, do the work on the back end and make it feel like that.
So that was just a fun one to work on, like, through the entire thing. But the vocals were pretty special.
Billy: It was super fun, especially when we had Molly coming in there and doing some of the fiddle stuff again. It was just such a fun experience all around, you know, making that song become what it is.
16 Tons
Billy: ’16 Tons’ was another one kind of left over from the very first session. And I think we didn't do a whole lot as far as musically to that one. I think we left it as it was. The one thing that we did do and it was like a really late add where we were in final mix phase of the record where it was Rich, Zack and myself were in that room at Zack's end right now. And we're listening down and we're like ‘Can we re-track these vocals?’ And Rich is like ‘Yeah, I think we should re-track these.’ And to Zack’s right is a microphone, and we re-tracked the vocals to kind of make it feel more like, I guess, in tune with where the second album was kind of heading, you know, I felt like there was some stuff from the very first recording for the vocals that felt like we could do it better. And I think he went in there and knocked it out of the park again. One or two takes. I mean, it really didn't take much at all.
Rain: So how was the vocals recorded on that one? Because there is like a kind of vintage, almost like megaphone type sound to that.
Zack: Billy and I both use one of the same microphones. It’s just built to sound, like, incredibly, neutral. Almost as if there's no microphone there. And what that kind of super clean, high power contrast image of the vocal allows you to do is change it in any direction on the back end. So I think for that one, I'm, like, running it through, like a fake guitar amp. Like a guitar amp model. It's going out to a big, echoey sounding room. Everything is happening digitally, but, yeah, it does sound kind of like it's going through like a big megaphone. Or, like a Marshall stack. It's pretty crusty.
Rain: Obviously, the version Rich would have referenced of this song probably would have been ‘Cactus Brothers’ cover, which is a kind of, like, Cow Punk-y one. And this has got very much that kind of tone. It's like that kind of like almost like 80s, kind of like new wave-y version of kind of country, the Cow Punk thing.
This is a favourite for me.
Billy: That was super fun. And again, having that extra time with it made it so easy for Rich to go in and just re-track all those vocals. Like, he knew that song like the back of his hand, you know, and he knew all the little nuances with the attitude and it was really fun to watch that just like, come to life in a matter of minutes, you know? Like ‘Ok, you just knocked it out of the park. You just beat the last one’ you know?
Where I Go
Billy: Again, it was one of the first songs I heard in the batch of demos that he sent that I was like, this is, to me, it's the song to protect, you know, because it's so open and honest and sincere. I really felt that we needed to keep that as much as possible intact. And I think it was day one when we were tracking drums and bass. Everyone had gone home for the day. It was just Rich, Zack Darling and Zach Ross and myself, and we'd look at each other like, ‘Do we want to try anything else?’ And we're like, well, we got ‘Where I Go’ and it's just going to be acoustic guitar. So I went in the room and Zach, I had one acoustic guitar and Zach Ross had a Nashville acoustic, which is basically a twelve string minus the regular guitar strings, so it's a really bright sounding guitar. And he sat in one room and I sat in another room and Rich sat in a vocal booth and we just watched each other and we tracked that song a few times. And it was fun to be able to play off Zach, play the exact same thing just on two different guitars, two different guitar players, you know, simultaneously, just making eye contact and it was really fun.
And there was think there was a click, right, Zack?
Zack: I think, yeah, there was. Yeah, we recorded everything to click on that one because we wanted you guys to have that really, like, bulletproof. Yeah, and I wanted, like, everybody needed to be very focused and almost. It should have sounded like there was, you know, one guitar player playing the entire thing.
Billy: Exactly.
Rain: I’m going to pause here and ask if Beth knows what a click track is. Probably some people that are going to be reading this might not know what that is, so it may be worth actually clarifying what that is for people who aren't too music-y.
Beth: Nope. Haven’t a clue.
Zack: The click track just lays out the most basic version of the rhythm of the song so that, like, the background of your head as you're recording the entire thing, there's always a constant click, click, click.
Just reminding you what the tempo is. Most musicians don't really need to listen to it. Drummers definitely do. And it keeps everyone locked in with each other rhythmically and also makes the drummer's life a whole lot easier. They can kind of keep a very focused sound through the entire thing. There's an argument to be made that it might, like, be making music a little stiff in general, but you get in what you put out, you know? Good musicians know how to play with a click track, even though it has a tendency to make things more rigid, which can be limiting.
Billy: And then I think the last thing that we added on that one was when Coop was in there, he had an upright bass, and we actually had him play the bow and make it almost appear like a cello. And that was one of the things that, like, we had a lot of fun kind of adding in because it just needed a little something at the end there. And we're really happy with how that came out.